Re: [fw-mvc] so complex!

On Wed, Sep 16, 2009 at 8:58 AM, Franck Delage <zf@web82.org> wrote:

Just to answer to Matthew :

Matthew Weier O'Phinney a écrit :

| First, we do make a number of assumptions: (1) you understand PHP, (2)
| you know how to setup a web server, and (3) you have used and written
| PHP classes. Are these inappropriate assumptions? I'd like to think not;
| how can you accurately judge the benefits a framework provides you
| unless you have a baseline to compare against?

Of course these are not inappropriate assumptions.
<snip/>

Wonderful discussion.

I like to imagine my own opinion is especially fair and balanced (so to spealk :-)) because I walk up to ZF as a non-full-time-professional coder, and as such, with a wee bit of inferiority complex. I have been working with ZF since somewhere around 0.9 I think (actually I tried a much earlier iteration and gave up, but the framework and its docs were obviously far less mature at the time).

I have had moments where I have struggled, googled, stared at documentation until my eyes stung and I all but despaired. Lately I had a crisis of faith in which I thought that Zend_Application and all the bootstrapping stuff had become rather excessively complicated. (Yes I know:  you can build a ZF app without Zend_Application if you so choose.) So I am sympathetic to the less sophisticated users who are overwhelmed and frustrated.

When I am really really stuck I turn to the list for help, and usually get it. What more can you ask for?

When I try a new thing  (tutorial, component, what have you) and "it doesn't work," my first question is, "what am I doing wrong?" This attitude doesn't just make me feel noble and righteous for my humility, but actually serves my own interests: it usually leads towards a solution (faster than, say, griping about the deficiencies of the documentation).

Further, I think you can say about your framework of choice what Winston Churchill is said to have said about democracy:  it is the worst form of government, except for all the other forms of government. This is the "worst" framework, except for all the others. Not to bash ZF, no, but rather to point out that you will probably find something to complain about with  _any_ framework you use. ZF, however, gives you the flexibilty to say, "I don't want to do it that way." You can even write old-school spaghetti if you want, and help yourself to a high-quality component here and there.

Finally, if you still find ZF too impenetrable, too unwieldy, too burdensome for you to use in your project... don't use it! Pick another framework, or no framework, or roll your own. Ah, freedom of choice!

--
David Mintz
http://davidmintz.org/

The subtle source is clear and bright
The tributary streams flow through the darkness